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From: Eliza Bonner <ElizaZ@mailcity.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:44:42 EST

A couple days ago, I was talking about CTY with my friend Amy over the phone. We noted that though our CTY friends formed a sort of family, complete with cousins no one likes but who show up everywhere, our family was bizzare and disfunctual. Part of this comes from the fact that we had no adult figures in our family, just a lot of kids. Smart as we are, in a lot of ways we are still just kids and could really use some sort of older and wise person hanging around. Now, a few of us keep in touch with our RAs from past years, but there really isn't any staff member who is part of our group. It probably would be a good thing if there were.

The fact that the administration is so actively discouraging contact with students is very upsetting. While they may not want to encorage staff to keep in touch with students for lawsuit reasons, they really shouldn't be firing people because they keep in touch with students. It's just wrong.

From: Jon Heifetz <OneIn8@bigfoot.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:45:49 EST

I remember that, as late as right before I started my final session (at Saratoga in '97), I always said that I wanted to return to CTY as an employee of some sort. Now, I'm not so sure. It kind of pisses me that they would terminate the employee who has probably given the most to the program of anybody in its history. Much of what he has given has been on a volunteer basis (i.e. the alumni reunions, the mailing list). Or at least I assume it was volunteer. Even if it was paid, I'm sure that Matt could have been making more money with that time elsewhere. Even if Matt was driving customers away from CTY with his expression of opinion (and I highly doubt it), CTY has gained far more from him than what a few more tuitions could supply with them with.

My dealings with the staff, especially the residential staff, have also made me wonder. When I first came to CTY, the RAs mostly liked their jobs. A great deal of them were former CTY students. In 1995, my first year at Skidmore, the RAs went out on strike to protect their colleague who was fired (unjustly) for yelling at a student who made an anti-Semitic remark. After that year, CTY cut loose every RA who struck. In 1996 and 1997, the entire residential staff at Skidmore was composed of "mercenaries". None of these were former CTY students, and basically all they did was enforce the rules. They knew absolutely nothing about the students or the program. There were a couple of former CTYers, but only one of them actually acted as the former CTYers usually do. Another former CTYer was one of the biggest SOBs of them all.

(I know that I'm gonna get a lot of BS for this next statement, but it has to be said) If you have another year, DO NOT go back to CTY. Get a job, go to another program, but DO NOT go back to CTY. Many people who are eligible for CTY are also eligible for some pre-college programs (a lot of universities have them). I'm pretty sure that I qualify for a fifth year of CTY, but I'm not going back. I'd rather get a job and earn money than suck money away from my parents for a program which has lost its purpose.

From: Lin DeNoyer <lkd1@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:10:36 EST

My son spent 2 summers at CTY. Matthew Belmonte was his instructor the second year. His experiences were rewarding for him. I was very!! happy with the program, and served some time as a parent volunteer, calling school principals, etc. to tell everyone about this wonderful program.

My daughter also spent 2 summers at CTY. The first year, the level of the course she had chosen was a little like pablum. She had seen all that, done all that, in elementary and middle school. She called home daily, very unhappy, until finally something was done. She was transferred into a very interesting program that challenged her. No more phone calls home! The second year she did not get along with her roommate. Again many phone calls home. I don't think the RA was listening (or noticing). I don't volunteer any more.

Maybe Matthew is right. Maybe CTY has outgrown itself.

It is possible that Matthew is right, that CTY's marketing efforts have contributed to dilution of excellence. However, it was BECAUSE of those marketing efforts that my 2 children had the opportunity for something more than the politically-correct one-size-fits-all education that pervades our school district (home of Cornell University, no less!).

We were introduced to CTY only because someone in this district allowed the Talent Search to take place. My children had been stifled for years. Examples: My son's 6th grade math teacher told him that he couldn't have a 7th grade math book, he "wouldn't understand it". My daughter's 5th grade teacher made her participate in a Special Ed reading program. She HATED it! This was an experiment call "blended classroom", designed so that Special Ed. students wouldn't feel bad. Students and parents had no choice in participation. Ergo you can understand my joy when CTY came to town. You can understand why I helped CTY expand into more districts like mine, districts where there are no GT programs and where academically-oriented kids are held back.

So whereas I can point to some disappointing experiences my kids had at CTY, I can also say Thank You! for being there.

From: Reuben Bushnell <johnny_reb@juno.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:23:27 EST

Hey, all....my name is Reuben Bushnell, and I've been in CTY since 1990, Young Students and Older....still got two more left till NoMore.....but anyways....

Yeah...it's true, CTY policies have rather "unofficially" changed...the rules in general remain the same, but things lapse or pass from year to year. Example; for those of you who have been to the Carlisle site, (Dickinson College) you probably know what "Six O'Clock Passionfruit" is. I don't know if they practice this at other sites, possibly Lancaster, not Hopkins. But anyways, it's a Sunday morning toast in which a group forms, and toasts to people/ideas/objects with passionfruit juice. As you may or may not know, it was sponsered by Gary Noritz, a long time RA and SRA at Carlisle....well, he's gone on after this year....and as more of the "old guard" moves on, Passionfruit and other customs, traditions, habits, will alter and change. Right now I see three possible futures for CTY.

First; the (in my opinion) optimal environment....which has NoMores and third years actively introducing the newer CTYer's to the traditions, so that they're carried on through the years...not only this, but they must teach, in a sense, their RA's, TA's, and if possible, teachers. (this possiblilty is prob. the most unlikely)

Second; CTY will move on, the current tradtions/customs will go, and be replaced....maybe even the sacred American Pie...who knows?

Third; CTY will grow into a emulation and later example of a cram school....for those of you who haven't heard of them, cram schools are prominent mostly in Japan, where it's an extra school where you go to cram for exams....it's not part of the school program, but courses are designed in expectancy that you go to cram school. My fear is that CTY will become this environment, described partially by Matthew Belmonte, where people are only there to get ahead. I believe that at the moment, this has only encompassed the Math Sequence course...I've taken it a number of times....but after more and more old faculty and students move on, without leaving their mark behind them, more and more will change, for the better or (more probably, in our opinion) to the worse.

Matthew Belmonte (who I don't think I've had the privelege to meet yet...) has described a system where he can't get through to CTY to complain/suggest....YES!! Any large corporation is like this...we have to find what makes CTY, rather, what IS CTY. What do we have? Not the Baltimore office faculty, and the "coordinators", but rather, what makes CTY itself is us, the students, the teachers and staff. We can't leave CTY in protest....they'd simply advertise to another audience....(by the way...no matter how hard you try, you will never, never find out who, specifically, the "they" are.) Because "they" aren't CTY. They never will be, as hard as they try. The only way for us to strike back at this "monster of society" (to haphazardly quote) is to undertake the education of the first year students....teach them the traditions, the music, the customs....make them into CTY, and tell them to teach when you are gone, so that CTY as we know it will endure, past any central changes or shifts...

"Forever young, I want to be forever young..."

From: Jamey Borell <SugrNSpice@goplay.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:27:54 EST

I wish I had the ability to put into words the disgust and anger I felt towards the RAs who just didn't understand and the administration that discriminated. I am the stereotypical "normal kid." I buy my clothes from the Gap, I have never worn black nail polish and I have never kissed another girl. But I have watched person after person try to comprehend how a place that was once so accepting on the part of the staff became so cold. The deep love felt for the place is now coiled around seeds of hate and disgust for me. It worries me. I don't want everyone to be normal. Was Einstein normal? Was Picasso normal? I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but I'm guessing the answer is no. I think I may become an RA still though. I hope I have the courage to give back to a few people what my early years at camp taught me. If I do that I hope someone will do the same thing and keep the CTY love alive.
~Jamey Borell
A No More '97

From: Nick Thornton <phreelance@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:59:56 PST

Namely to those of you who don't know me I am Nick T. I am not like the afore spoken Jamey Borell. I am not a 'normal' person. I've worn black nail polish, though I prefer a sparkly dark blue. I wear skirts, I've kissed girls, and on occasions guys. I never owned anything from the Gap and I have my own style. I'm a vegetarian and a revolutionist. I don't fit in, never did, nor do I ever hope to.

You see CTY is where I found myself. Where I became myself; from wearing skirts, to my first girlfriend and first kiss. From finding true friends to kissing guys. At CTY I learned to accept being different and that there are others out there. In the 'real world' anyone who cross dresses is a freak, and a communist is as soon spat on as ignored. In the 'real world' intelligence is in a disability to be corrected. But when I went to CTY it was different. People cared and there were those like you. At CTY I always found the home I never had.

This past year though it seems all to have died. Chance I just outgrew CTY, but from cancelled discussion groups and an attempt to end passionfruit to outlawed cross dressing inciting the infamous 'Tuesday'; this year was not the same. True all the people were there and all the friends and loves and memories that made it all worthwhile, but something of the essence of CTY was lacking: part of the magic died. I always wanted to return to CTY as an RA or some such, and I guess deep down I still do, yet now for different reasons. When I was young and naïve I wanted to come back simply to hold onto this special place I found. Now I want to hold this special place together to give to posterity. Certainly if CTY had not come along I would not be here now, for life is much a burden. Somehow I managed to convince myself that CTY would always be there and would stay the same, and now 'tis a sad day knowing it will not. I always found an RA as a friend over the years. And I already knew of one such career ended because an RA 'cared too much'. Now to know that Matthew too has been discarded for being the essence of CTY...
I never thought I'd see CTY die, but then I never thought I could change its future either.
"I can't remember if I cried... but something touched me deep inside, the day the music died"

From: Sheryl Kane <S10Rose@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:08:46 EST

My name is Sheryl Kane; I'm a former CTY student (I was a nevermore at Saratoga in '97). I just read your letter and I strongly agree with you about CTY's misdirection. Though I know little about pre-1994 conditions, I can say that every year since 1994 was marked by an increase in the number, scope, and enforcement of rules. Perhaps the most disturbing manifestation of this was an incident that happened at Skidmore, session 2, 1997. On the second Saturday of session 2, a girl I'd known from '94 who had been a nevermore during session 1 returned to visit some session 2 friends. Rather than the warm reception she'd expected, she arrived to find that her visit had been prohibited. Not only was she denied contact with all current session 2 CTYers, but she was ordered to leave campus. If she refused, the administration said that they would call security and have her arrested. Bear in mind that just two weeks earlier this girl had been forbidden from leaving campus, and now she was forbidden to remain...

From: M. (ADDRESS WITHHELD BY REQUEST)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:19:55 PST

You may reprint any or all of this onto your comments portion of your webpage. (but please do not print my last name in case CTY comes across this and is seeking reason to fire current staff members)

Let me say that if not for CTY and the people I met there, I can assure you, I would not be alive today. I would not have made it past eighth grade. I am now a happy, well adjusted 17 year old.

To give you an idea of what I'm like, let me say that I'm more "normal" than many of my CTY friends, but certainly more out there than Ms. Borell. To use the black nail polish as a gauge, yes I own some, yes, I've worn it, but no, I do not wear it a lot, because I hate the way nail polish feels. (C'mon, all you talented youth, interpret THAT metaphor).

So I guess it's time to make my point. During my four years at CTY, I've been known more or less as the girl who hangs out with/keeps in touch with members of the CTY staff. And some of these people are my best friends. CTY can go to hell if they say we can't keep in touch. I may love CTY, but I love my friends more, and I will be loyal to them far sooner than I will pledge my allegience to an institution that is a cardboard cutout of what it once was.

From: Seb Thaler <Memorious@aol.com>
Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:29:37 EST

I just finished reading your (very moving) essay about leaving CTY. Thanks for writing it. It flooded me with bittersweet memories, and yet was horribly depressing at the same time. Odd, perhaps, that one piece of writing could evoke such conflicting emotions, yet I think you know exactly what I mean. A few points:

The astronomy course and several other science classes were administered by the Maryland Academy of Sciences, an entity with a very stormy relationship with the central CTY Politburo. Eventually, I believe, JHU and the MAS stopped collaborating altogether, although those same courses continued to exist. Anyway, the impression I received, even as a student, was that the MAS courses were more oriented toward "fun" and less toward "college prep."

I felt the early rumblings of doom, as did you, as early as '83. (Fuck, I didn't even know where Schnader Hall was!) And, I recall complaining to Jim DuSel about it, in I think '84, as he and I walked across Hartmann Green one day. I must have said something about the lowering of entrance standards--I forget exactly. He completely blew me off, and his parting words were: "It feels good to bitch, doesn't it?" or something similarly obnoxious.

My little sister attended writing courses at Dickinson in the early 90s. She went several times, and curiously, I don't recall her complaining about changing regulations. (Although admittedly I've never grilled her in detail on this subject.) I wonder if the experience at Dickinson progressed differently, or if, by the time she arrived, strict regulations had already become so commonplace that no one perceived a lessening of freedom in subsequent sessions?

Answers? I have none. If this country expended one-tenth its resources fostering academic talent as it currently does athletic talent...but don't let me start a rant on anti-elitism, I'll never stop.

From: Sara Madge <skizzo@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:40:13 PDT

Hello. My name is Sara Madge. I just finished reading your comments about the problems with the institution of CTY. I spent my past four summers taking seven different courses at CTY, and, as one of the oppressed students you so often mentioned, I would like to respond. Yes, at times, CTY could appear to be a dictatorship of sorts. Of course I felt chaffed by all the rules which often did not seem fair, and which I felt could not be changed in six weeks. And yet, I kept returning, six more times, to CTY. I never met a student at CTY who felt so restricted by the rules that it ruined the experience of CTY. And every student I knew there, myself included, was mature enough to understand the need for such rules, simply for logistical reasons. The experience of CTY was worth giving in to simple rules. The impression I get from your document is that getting rid of the rules is somehow more important than continuing CTY. I am hoping that your letter does not reach many potential CTY students, because I do not want you to be able to further spread the image of CTY that it is nothing but a "nerd camp". Many students are able to enjoy CTY, rules and all.

I do not see the problem you are presenting with CTY alumni, either. We are all smart enough to keep in touch with our CTY friends, we never would have gone to CTY if we were not. I don't want CTY to be sued any more than CTY does; I want others to have the opportunity to have the same wonderful experiences I had at CTY. I see no reason for the institution of CTY to put itself at risk of liability for anything that students can accomplish for themselves.

I also really do not understand what you are hoping or expecting to accomplish from your critique of CTY. One of your complaints was that the intelligent population of CTY was being diluted (which I do not agree with in the least) by students of a lesser intelligence. IAAY did establish CAA, which you acknowledged, and yet complained about CTY doing the action to increase their market share. As far as I can tell, your complaint was cleared, and you kept complaining. And for all your outbursts of the problems with CTY, and all the action you want people to take, you never state what it is you want to happen. Do you want CTY to simply dissapear? If so, I will have to disagree with not only your arguments, but your motivation as well.

Overall, I am sorry that you were fired by CTY, but it is clear that the reason given, that you have a "fundamental difference in philosophy" with the institution of CTY, is true. If you have so many problems with CTY, why did you want to continue working there in the first place? I would also like to say that I am a little dissapointed with the comments on your comment page. They all seem to be agreeing with you. I suppose it is possible that no one has writen who disagreed with you, but from my experiences at CTY and from the people I have known and talked to, I seriously doubt it. I hope this letter is placed on that page, but I am not expecting it.

One last note, I did catch the American Pie reference, and I must say I do not approve of someone who so obviously is against so much of CTY quoting something which is almost sacred to those of us who care about CTY. It's sad to see something many of us care about being used against something we care about much, much more.

Sara Madge

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:35:49 PDT
From: Parker Morse <pjmorse@hotmail.com>

Saw your comments on the web, wanted to put an oar in.

Where I'm coming from: I did four years at Dickinson as a student during the "Boom Years," '87 through '90. Since then, aside from seeing a whole bunch of CTYers when I went to college (Amherst '96) I've barely had contact with CTY/IAAY; I applied to RA in '95 but found a "better" job (see .) And they've asked me for money, which (so far) I haven't had to give. (And your business metaphor makes me think twice about giving. But.)

Typically, I'm not going to take you head-on, but instead I'll quibble with your perspective and perhaps propose some alternative explanations.

Perspective: I took Humanities courses, Dickinson all the way. And let me tell you, in those years the whole college-prep thing didn't even show on the radar screen for me. (Maybe it did for my parents.) Where did Woogie get me? Russian History? It got me a Russian major in college, which I've done precisely nothing with. The quantifiable courses, though... your calculus, your neuroscience, you can say the student has mastered X concepts and Y topics and be happy. We're much fuzzier over in humanities, and therefore (I think) the "pressure" for results, for getting ahead, never showed its head that I could see.

You weren't, incidentally, the only instructor to keep in touch with your students. I went trans-Atlantic for the first time with Dan "D.A." Allen, my Russian History instructor, bless the old dinosaur's flinty little heart. He did it every spring, invited forty-odd ex-students of his on an educational tour. Great stuff. I don't know if he's still doing it; it's been seven years now. I don't even know if DA is still alive, to tell the truth.

Anyway, I'd like to propose that the "alumni organization" you think CTY should be doing is simply not a winning proposition for them. The only thing CTY alumni have to offer at this point is money, and there still isn't really a critical mass of us in the work force, ergo not enough money. The pig, to borrow a metaphor, hasn't reached that point yet in the python. Look at me: eight years after I went nomore and I'm just beginning to have enough money to look around to see who I could give some money to. Anyway, I'd suggest (without knowing the facts of the matter) that perhaps the CTY administration simply doesn't have the time to organize these alumni events (and I'd underline that most non-campus-based alumni events for most colleges are volunteer affairs put together by self-sustaining associations). Sure, the instant answer might be "hire someone," but I don't think alumni yet have enough to give, to make it worthwhile for the business of CTY to spend money milking them. Which is what alumni relations is all about.

Next thing to figure into the equation is the scholarships CTY provides. That's one place I'd rather see CTY spending money than alumni organization. And it's the reason I give money I can barely afford (not much, yet) to my college, and nothing to CTY: I didn't get (nor did I ask for) aid from CTY, but I did get help from the college. I feel I owe them more.

A little time with Milan Kundera is blurring my ideas about what is past - that which happened and will never be again, like my twelve weeks at CTY - and that which recurs, like CTY itself. My time at CTY was wonderful, but it's dead and gone, and I've found I no longer mourn. It doesn't weigh on me; in fact, it has little weight. The CTY which happens in the summer now... well, it's not mine. It's someone elses, and they know more and care more about it than I myself. And therefore it has weight for them - and not for me.

That's a little cold, I know, but if they've forgotten me - and I think they have - well, I've forgotten them too.

Parker Morse
WRS1 CAR2 87
WS2B CAR2 88
POLY CAR2 89
RUHI CAR2 90

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:39:29 EDT
From: Clara Suneun Kim <suneun@visi.net>

I believe that we can all speak in similar tones about our memories of CTY. Nowhere else have I made the close connections to people that have stayed with me through the years. I spent five summers (one session each summer) with CTY (Goucher one year, JHU four) and I enjoyed almost every moment of it (don't make me sing Grease songs again!)... I will always remember.

I would be willing to call the IAAY (as they now call themselves) in Baltimore and have a dialogue with anyone who would speak to me. The teachers I found to be the most impressive, the most touching, were those who reached out on a personal level. I can point to my own Genetics teacher, Kane Kuo, from two summers ago (Session 1, JHU '96) who actually led me towards research as a vocational goal. The personal interaction is what made CTY special and those who are at the highest reaches of the heirarchy at IAAY need to know this. I would put tremendous effort into keeping my memories of CTY alive inside and on the campuses.

From: (ADDRESS WITHHELD BY REQUEST)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:00:07 EDT

I went to CTY in 1994 and 1995 (Clinton, NY and F&M respectively). Without doubt, CTY was a very significant experience for me. I took Intro. to CS, Data Structures and Algorithms, and Digital Logic. It is not a coincidence that I am considering pursuing CS and mathematics next year at college. CTY was great, no question. However, there were things even then that bothered me. Once I got over being frightened by the challenge and by my own perceptions of my inabilities, I really enjoyed myself.

Those of you who have known CTY for some time will recall that CTY/Clinton in 1994 was not exactly a perfect place. I personally did not run into any great problems, but the site was suffered from growing pains. These growing pains translated into tensions between administrators and students - strains that I also noticed at F&M in '95. I suppose CTY students are a little unusual and, being largely independent, can be difficult. Nevertheless, it isn't a good idea to step on peoples' toes. There were a lot of little things. For example, CTY for me was all about doing as much "work" as possible. I loved it precisely because I could do exactly what I wanted and as much as I wanted. It seemed strange to me then, and still does, although perhaps to a lesser degree, that the administrators tried to prevent studying outside the classroom. Of course being able to "work" outside the classroom was what CTY was all about and I didn't let administration mandates foul up my plans too much. (I spent an awful lot of time "writing letters" ;)

There are many things to say for CTY but the more you know a place, the more its faults become evident. I was at CTY for only two years and at two different sites. Nevertheless, my second summer at CTY I saw a far greater number of people who were working to "get ahead". Although this is, I realize, increasingly the selling point of CTY, it is, to my way of thinking, a perversion of all that was good at CTY and of what I gained from the experience. To be perfectly blunt, I think that if you need to take a summer class to skip a year of math, the you shouldn't be considering skipping a year of math in the first place. That aside, CTY offers courses that virtually no high school can....but these are my personal biases.

As for alum organization -- CTY should promote such activities. Yes, we may be "smart enough" to keep in touch, but it is my experience that sustained effort - or simple inertia, for that matter - far outweighs intelligence. It is all too easy to let old friendships disappear because we are "too busy". CTY and its alumni/ae would benefit from official organization...but inertia is so easy, isn't it?...

And now for the inevitable rant ;)

- ----BEGIN RANT BLOCK----
I am sure that the question of elitism at CTY will never be settled. However, I recall discussing the restructuring of CTY and the formation of IAAY with my parents. We couldn't really figure out at first what was happening. It seemed, and I still maintain that the promotional literature intended, to obfuscate. I don't comprehend the purpose of compromising the standards at CTY. "Dumbing down" is all too common -- it happens consciously in the text-book publishing industry and it happens at just about every high school I have come across. Why perpetuate it? CTY was useful and enjoyable not because it was easy or designed to promote my "self-esteem" per se. Rather, it was useful and enjoyable because it challenged me and pushed me. In the end, my self-esteem was reaffirmed because I succeeded in an endeavour that was very challenging for me. Following CTY I was far better able to pursue my interests independently. I do not think that this can be the case in a weaker community. Perhaps I am speaking from ignorance, but I fail to see how lowering standards can accomplish CTY's goals. True, it may help increase market share, but should CTY be a for-profit venture? I am, I admit, a bit of an idealist and what many would term conservative or rightist, though such terms are very seldom useful or accurate. If CTY's purpose is to dominate the "market" as it perceives it, it may be pursuing an effective policy. Disenfranchising your "customers" is, nevertheless, rarely a wise course. I would like to make a modest proposal instead. Perhaps CTY's goal should be to provide a forum in which young students can meet others of like intelligence, interest, and enthusiasm. Perhaps CTY should not compromise the integrity of its programs and the value it provides to young students who would otherwise have to pursue their academic interests solely independently. This past summer I met a person who would have benefitted greatly from a program such as CTY. His school was abysmal - - teachers and students alike abused drugs and scorned achievement. Will IAAY open the "CTY experience" to more? Perhaps. But at what cost? Elitist, you say? Perhaps. But at what cost, you say? I think that the cost of compromise is far greater. If CTY had been less demanding for me, it would have been far less significant. In the end, the more you ask of yourself and others, the more you will get. CTY is not the place for mediocrity -- others have already perfected the art.
- ----END RANT BLOCK----

And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died....

From: Beth Kursh <SamKursh@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:00:56 EDT

I was packing for CTY when I came across the essay you wrote about the history of CTY. I decided to take a break and read it, figuring it was the least I could do for the friend, and fellow CTYer, who had sent it to me. I admit, there were times when I felt what you were saying was a bit far fetched, but what you said about the community at CTY was so true that it brought tears to my eyes.

Never will I forget sitting with my friends, passing a can of juice and making toasts to CTY memories. Playing Ultimate Frisbee religiously. Complaining about Extra Study Hall. Weeping when my parents drove me home. I never will forget the people I met, and the friendships I formed, and the things that seemed moronic at the time, like hanging a phone upside down on it's cradle, or having competitions to see who could make the best soft serve ice cream cone. It was those memories that I treasure. To be honest, I couldn't tell you many of the factoids I learned at CTY, but what I can tell you, is that I left the campus changed for life.

CTY became, for me, the place where I could go, if only in my memories, to sort out problems, to laugh, or to simply reminisce. I have heard it said that CTY is like your first love. You regard it with respect, and remember the first original pain when it was over, and that pain is something like an elixir for you, bittersweet.

While I am not qualified to say that CTY should throw caution to the wind and create reunions for alumni, having attended a reunion my friends organized, I know the results. Granted, I might have gotten about two hours of sleep that whole weekend, but I left feeling full for the first time in months. I slept better, I looked better, I was better.

As far fetched as it sounds, last year, my first year of older students CTY, I fell asleep in the car. Five minutes before we arrived at Franklin and Marshall, I woke up. The way a young child does when he knows he's home.

Thank you, Mr. Belmonte, for CTY history in a nutshell, from the person who clearly knows more about it than anyone I've ever met.

From: (ADDRESS WITHHELD BY REQUEST)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:25:39 EST

I'm a CTYer; it's become an irrevocable part of my identity. I've done Young Students and "Geezers," Loyola Marymount and Dublin City U. I introduce myself by my latest course code, and refer to my place of residence as "my winter home."

And yes, I plan to be an RA as soon as I get the chance.

I have only once had an RA who was a former CTYer. I honestly believe that she, and my wonderful Psychology TA who was also an ex-camper, were the two most positive adult influences at CTY (or CTYI, for that matter). They knew what it was like to be away from home 49 weeks out of the year, and they worked to make the experience special. Unfortunately, the "mercenaries" don't have this concern- and it's really *not* their fault. Who but CTYers can really know CTY?

This year was especially disheartening. Controversial campers were denied admission. My (male) friend was harshly disciplined for wearing my bra as outerwear at the talent show. (To tell you the truth, it looked better on him anyway.) And we were forced to be sociable. Except for "American Pie," "YMCA," and other traditional songs, I generally stay outside during dances and read depressing and/or bloodthirsty poetry in the cold. (Before one dance, however, I was researching my term paper on Palestinian foreign policy during the Intifada.) But RAs were sent out during every dance to drag us inside. Plus, we were coerced into attending "fun" outings when all a lot of us really wanted to do was stay home and catch up on old times.

What's up with forced socialization? Aren't we attending CTY(I) to improve ourselves intellectually? Let the social chips fall where they may; they'll fall into place, trust me.

And as long as we're forced to dance, please respect our traditions! As Emil noted, RAs were instructed to enforce ridiculous rules about dancing rituals. How's this for the books: at several dances last year, the SRA refused to play "YMCA" because it "promotes a homosexual message." (Well, it does- but so what?) And at the last dance, they ran out of time to play "American Pie"- and ended up sending us to our rooms after some horrendous uptempo number. (Did I mention that dance ended at 9:30????)

The forcible, bland, and ultimately intolerable social exposure may stem from the stigmatization of work which seems pervasive now. We're *here* to work!!! Why *can't* we write research papers during letter-writing time? during dances? after 11 pm? (Eternal gratitude, by the way, to the professor with whom I shared a room last year, who let me keep the light on in the bathroom until I finished my paper at 6:45 am.) As long as we enjoy the intellectual stimulation, as long as we're working voluntarily, as long as we're not harming our ever-precious social skills, what's the problem? Isn't the "all work and no play makes a dull child" anti-work ethic strong enough in the winter months? Don't we come to CTY to *escape* it?

What we need, and what I will attempt to provide in a few years, is a return to the sense of community that once defined CTY. We need, like the military's "hometown recruiters," people who have been there, done that, and collected the ridiculously ugly camp T-shirts. (Who am I to gripe about shirts, though? Dublin campus doesn't have them.)

I don't know Matthew, but if he was anything like RA Kelly, or TA Erika, or the Psych Professors Terry and Caroline, or the occasional exceptional few, well- we need him more than anything else. And heaven help CTY, and CTYI, if we lose those few.

-"Maeve Buchanan"

From: Sara Thomson <eracism@thedoghousemail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:37:37 PST

For the many CTY-ers out there that don't know me, my name is Sarah Thomson. I attended LMU in LA for the past two years, and plan on going back this summer. Before that, I was a squirrel at the Stanford site.

This page has really opened my eyes to the differences between the East Coast and West Coast sites, but there are similarities. West-coasters have been feeling the pressure - an RA a fired 1st session last year for not reporting a week-night sleepover, but I haven't heard of anything worse than that.

I plan on becoming an RA after nevermore-ing, despite the rules (if CTY lasts that long...) I want to leave something for the next generation of talented students that attend this camp.

My prayers are with all the "restricted ones" in the East who are fighting bureaucratic oppression of the God-given freedom of CTY. I hope, though, that you can ignore or disobey the rules just enough to have a good time. After, that's what CTY is partly about.

That's all I have to say about that...

From: Zoë Thorkildsen <zoethor2@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:34:22 EDT

I'm sure few people reading this know who I am, but I attended CTY for three years, '98 at Saratoga, '99 and '00 at Carlisle. I agree with nearly everything written here about the fall of CTY. I'm glad that this was my nomore year, I know I would have gone again if I could have but I doubt I would have enjoyed it. This year at Carlisle things got especially bad, everyone agreed. Students were forced to wear lanyards around their necks, not the traditional beltloop position. When students first talked about the last Passionfruit (the only one held at 6am anymore) we were told we weren't going to be able to start at 6, because the rules say we aren't allowed out of the dorm at that time. That was eventually sorted out, (I think it was realized by everyone that we were going to do it at 6, there wasn't anything the admin could do to stop us) but the idea of being banned from one of our most precious traditions scared all the nomores. How is CTY going to keep these traditions alive without us there??? Will our first year friends absorb all of it and remember it next year??? Many of my friends and I want to come back as staff, and it scares me to think I might come back to a Dickinson campus in which the last three songs at any dance are Forever Young, Stairway and American Pie.

I also agree that RAs are changing. My first year of CTY nearly every RA had been a CTYer before, they were all open and friendly to the students, and I'm sure if any student had wanted to make friends of the RAs, they would have been able to. This year at Carlisle, there were three RAs who had ever been to CTY before, as staff or student. Only one had been a student (my wonderful ErinRA!), the other two had been there one year before. The SRA, Pete, was only in his second year. I think that the number of returning students is dropping, and so is the number of returning RAs. I feel I should bring up the old rats from a sinking ship metaphor. And I think that the admin has made it clear they are not going to help, they continue to impose rules that seem to be simply put in place to test their authority.

So I encourage every nomore to go back as staff. If most or all of the staff is composed of returning students, we will be able to talk to the admin about rules for our students. Although this year students did try to talk to the admin (the day that the lanyard rule was put in place there was an activity called "Protest Letter Writing" - supposed to be used to write protest letters to governers etc... you can guess that most of the letters were sent directly to KW, no postage needed) they were mostly brushed off. Students need an authority figure to pass their messages on for them, and I think that those of us who can no longer return to our Utopia should go back and make sure it remains Utopia for those who follow us. CTY is too important to let it die...
"Do you really want to live Forever, forever, and ever young?"
-Zoë Thorkildsen
'98 SAR French
'99 CAR Goodwives
'00 CAR Psych

From: Andromeda Yelton <sproing@mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:36:42 EDT

I would like to add to Eliza's excellent essay with what is (eek!) a bit of an old-timer's perspective. (LAN 91-94 with a CAR 94 stint in there.)

For my first two, three years of CTY, the magic was generated not only by the community of people my age with whom I can actually connect (and with whom I still connect! they keep showing up in my social circle *hi Tracy*; my CTY boyfriend and I have an apartment and a cat! *boing*). It was also generated by the full support of the administration. The magic wasn't just that I was learning how to be simultaneously a weirdo and someone with social skills; it was that the RAs, TAs, and administration stood behind that goal, and facilitated it. Walt Kessler, our site director and a man with God's own talent at the New York Times crossword, made sure a whole lot of photocopies of it were available every morning, and the crossword became this thing that Grant and I did every morning (and I still do NYT crosswords, often with him, when I can get my hands on them). When I pursued this same Walt Kessler at Carnival, begging him to marry me (at the Carnival marriage booth! get your minds out of the gutter) and he kept turning me down, I made a final melodramatic threat to hurl myself from the heights of Thomas if he wouldn't say yes. He said "sure, it'll be a lot quieter around here."

That really summarizes it for me now -- the fact that the adults in my early CTY life had a sense of humor, did not have to react to every bit of oddness (and how infinitely many there will be, around CTYers...) with a normal's lawsuit feelers, and were willing to let us make our own decisions. Even if maybe some of those were dumb.

*sigh* The fact that in 1994 RAs yelled at me and a friend for climbing on Sticks and Stones, the statue, when the previous year's catalog had featured a photograph of a class perched on it.

The magic was gone for me by the end of 1994. ("Will theere be no one left to say...it was _different_ last year?") Had I had another year of eligibility, I would not have gone. Yes, my friends had all graduated, and that was depressing, but worse yet I was being treated (at the age of sixteen) as less mature than I had been treated at 13, by the very adults who should have been encouraging my full social and intellectual and moral and personal development. The staff were no longer largely former CTYers and people who came back year after year after year; they were random college students clearly selected more for their all-American resumes than their understanding of the magic, and the turnover was immense, and they did not come back. My first two years I had long conversations with my RAs because they were interesting people and I looked up to them; my last session I avoided my RA, refusing to sign up for activities that she was holding, because I hated being watched, every movement signed up for and noticed.

The magic wasn't just students I could be myself around. The magic was adults I could be myself around, adults who trusted that I could be out of their sight or doing something strange for a moment without getting dead or (more to the point) hurting the business's image.

But somewhere in there -- where "somewhere" is 1993, "somewhere" is the day the new site director buckled under Baltimore's requests and made us actually go to the activities we'd signed up for, the day two hundred and some people showed up for volleyball to _dare_ them to count us all (and they did...) -- somewhere in there CTY stopped being a place to support students and started being a business with an image to protect, an image to portray to the parents of those students, to normal people living normal lives with nice normal upper-middle-class budgets and neurotic drives toward academic achievement. And there was still magic there, because how can you avoid it with hundreds of people the likes of CTYers in one place...? Hell, my last session was DIGI, _the_ digi, the class that kicked off the whole crazy social circle, and if that's not magic I don't know what is. But suddenly the magic was something to have in furtive corners, something to have in shadows when no grownups were there, something to keep out of sight lest it be opposed, uprooted, punished.

I started hearing stories that my friends from digi, exactly the same people who would have been socially prominent and liked or at least tolerated (bemusedly) by the administration in my early years of CTY, they were being administratively blacklisted, kicked out.

I don't doubt that magic still happens because I see it in the younger CTYers. I hear it in what you say of the place, and it's clear you've been affected in many of the same ways I was. But I also know that the experience is far more one-sided...and that no one alive today, as CTY counts generations, can remember.

My first two years or so I swore to Vilma (the sainted Vilma) that I would come back as an RA. I wanted nothing more than to do that. I guess it was how I pictured myself as a grownup. I wanted to give back as I had been given to, I wanted to be part of it once more, I wanted to come home.

But home doesn't exist any more.

So I've thought about being an RA, but I'm really too depressed by the prospect. And it would be immoral, anyway; I wouldn't enforce the rules I hear about and you shouldn't apply for a job if you know they're just going to have to fire you anyway. Even if they're firing you for trusting the people in your charge and treating them maturely. (And watching your hopes justified; I acted more mature my first few years of CTY than I did my last.)

And I haven't really thought about giving money to CTY, and I'm not going to. Think about it or do it, that is.

And if I had children I wouldn't allow them to go.

*sigh* If there are grownups reading this (*laugh* and I'm a grownup now, I suppose, for all it matters), I hope you've read to here, and I hope you think about what your core constituency really is. If it's the parents, your source of money, your fear of lawsuits, well then, have fun, have fun teaching students that the best parts of themselves are things accepted by their peers but never by adults, never by society. Have fun, but don't expect to get Grant's computer scientist money or my professorial money or whatever it is I end up making. But if your core constituency is the students you educate, well then, have a thought for your rules and your staff and their passions. Because for us, back in '95 or so when the memories were still fresh but we knew there was no home for us to return to, "IAAY" didn't sound like a business plan. It sounded like a death shriek.

Andromeda
(who has, I'm afraid, gone off on a bit of a tangent)

From: Emily Moin <skills@optonline.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:04:54 EDT

I'm probably the youngest person yet to reply to your essay... This year was my first session at CTY, CLN.2 Psych.

Anyway. Regarding restrictions, rules, most of what is being complained about now (even people who started going as late at '98 long for the good ole days)... When I got to Hamilton on my first day, first time being away from home, I was terrified of breaking a commandment (the eleven of them that is) as my RA (not a previous CTY student, and actually having her first year as an RA) gave the half hour speech on rules and regulations. No going out of bounds, no standing sitting or climbing on ledges (while on your way out the window, which became a major joke among us), no studying or doing schoolwork outside of class, and other equally scary rules. (Did I mention no foreplay on the bridge, and no swinging of your keys?)

The next day I was equally scared by my class. School has been a coast-like situation for me, not because I don't try, but because its such a mindless task that it doesn't require any special attention. But no-no-no said my instructor: We had to write a research paper, perform an experiment on our fellow students, prepare a formal debate at least three times (depending on our standing in the tournament), teach an hour long lesson on a chapter to the rest of the class, take a midterm and final, and take notes on our 60+ page chapters every night. The first night of study hall I worked so hard that I had a headache until the next morning, and I hadn't even finished taking notes on the first chapter. I felt like a failure. I asked my roommate and some of the other girls on my hall if they had finished the notes that night (perhaps I could borrow them?), and was astonished to realize that I had taken notes the farthest in the chapter of all my friends, who had even skipped the 15 minute social break to work during study hall. Over the next three weeks I learned how to prioritize, not in the cheesy third grade sense of the word, but in the sophisticated overloaded sense, to the point that although I always had work to do, the work I did thoroughly was required to be done thoroughly, while you could simply skim and jot down the main ideas of a chapter (even just reading the summary at the end) and not miss a beat, because you were taught the entire chapter the next morning. (And my course was considered one of the most rigorous!)

The residential rules soon became casual to me as well. Almost all of my "best friends" at CTY were either nevermores or at least in high school, and for the first two days I came to them with questions, until other first years, coincidentally older than me, would come to me for help (so I'm allowed to leave my room after lights out on my way to the bathroom? I can't stay in my dorm during Fun in (without) the Sun?) I dont know if I lucked out with amazing RA's and SRA's the session I was there, but I found that almost all rules were made to be broken, or at least made to be played with roughly. For example, the rule about taking your work home with you was almost completely ignored by admin staff and students alike. I'm the least "study crazed" student, but often found myself sitting in the quad preparing a debate or reading a chapter, as RA's walked about. Lights out, while strictly enforced, was completely abandoned by the 99% of us who found our window shades (true!). I think the only rule obeyed completely was the rule of no swinging your keys, but does that really matter? Not at all.

Now, since I've rambled long enough (and feel free to cut out anything I said), I'll come to the part that actually deals with what your essay was talking about. Has the "freedom" allowed at CTY been cut down? A whole hearty Yes. Is it however, unfairly restricted? I don't think so. For me, a 12.8 year old, CTY was like release from a life sentence in the max, and even for older kids, it was more freedom than we had at home. About the decline of elitism and the increase in people coming to CTY to get ahead... I, personally, don't think so that CTY is being any less selective. Every single person I know who has ever attended CTY is extremely intelligent and creative. (Not to mention that the SAT isn't a valid form of testing for 'talented youth', and therefore we can't be selective about these things. I probably wouldn't have been accepted if CTY was more selective, and yet I found the course material slightly challenging, but definitely not out of my range) All the people I knew at CTY, with the exception of one girl (who I think I'll have to talk about a little more), were there for the community, for the academics, and to get away from the hell that public school, and for many of us home, has become. If nothing else, if my freedom was reduced to walking to class and meals always accompanied by staff, I would still return, for the community that CTY welcomes me into, where I don't have to censor my conversation to steer clear of controversial subjects and big words. Where else would I meet, or for that matter befriend, a 16 year old from New Jersey who plays the dijaridoo and listens to Wesley Willis? Maybe others have other options; TIP, Pre College, programs back home, etc. But for most of the people at CTY and me, CTY is our home.

The girl I mentioned before, got the hard end of the deal. Fairly intelligent, creative, and hard working, she entered CTY at 16 (she assumed, when accepted at 12, that she had until the end of high school to attend) so that she would have at least 1 session under her belt. Well, harsh reality time. She came from an upper middle class town, was just starting to receive the "work hard and go to an Ivy League college" talks, and felt the need to do as much work as possible. Unlike the rest of the students in our Psychology class, she felt the need to complete every assignment given, even though we were given repeated reminders that no student could possible finish everything in our short three weeks. (I never completed my experiment and my notebook has only two chapters' worth of notes, but I was considered one of the 'top students' in class). During class lectures or discussions she was either "napping" in her textbook or taking notes on chapters for next week, so study hall would be free to work on her paper or experiment. During free social times she would sit in either her dorm or at a breezeway table, frantically taking notes or reading. During the 9:00 social time she would lock herself in her room and call her boyfriend or family (whom we learned later were being called by her sometimes three or four times a day). When we did associate with her, generally during mandatory fun (which I will get to!), she would complain that she felt like she didn't fit in at CTY, that she didn't think she was as smart as everyone else, and that she thought everyone else was excluding her. Although we were reasonably nice to her, we all knew the reasons for all of those feelings: she refused to be imperfect! The most important thing that I learned at CTY was that there are many roads to perfection. She had learned to follow the "scenic route". All flowers and butterflies, but deserted and lonely and long. While the rest of us sloshed along the muddy path, making friends and enjoying ourselves, she never learned to, in essence, BE a CTY student. She feigned unhappiness with the rest of us as she packed, but later remarked to me that she really didn't care. "I don't feel attatched to everyone the way you are."

On to Mandatory Fun. Maybe other people are getting the wrong impression of the way it is from other sites, but at Clinton its biggest disadvantage was that you couldn't really sleep till all hours of the afternoon on weekends. For the "Temple of Nike" Sunday (read: Athletic Day), everyone was shooed out of their dorms, but after that, almost everything was optional. I, being the sports pathetic person that I am, sat on the field with my friends and made daisy chains, discussed Kant with Existentialism students, and had a fine time. On a particularly depressing day (why? I don't know), my friend Kat and I took notebooks, books, and pens to Mandatory Fun. We sat in the KJ Lounge, writing poetry or reading, and watched a movie. "Mandatory Fun"? Not at all. Nothing except "don't go into rooms that are locked" and "don't go back to the dorm" (although you really could) was enforced, and if forcing us to sit on couches and drink hot cocoa (on a peculiarly cold summer day) and write poetry or discuss gun control laws is stifling, then I don't know where you live (or how you live for that matter).

So, thats what I have to say. My CTY in a nutshell (in a nutshell, in a nutshell, in a nutshell...).

(Reading this over I realize its quite long and way too personal to be a real reply, but if nothing else, maybe you'd like to know about my experience at CTY)

------------------------
-Emily Moin
AIM: ememSPARK
ICQ: 22822437
CLN.2 IPSY 2000

From: (NAME REDACTED BY REQUEST)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:29:53 EDT

Hi. I just finished my fourth year at CTY Clinton and feel ready to join the melee.

I agree with many of you in that the general administration is going about things all wrong--that they'd catch more flies with honey and underestimate our maturity, etc. There are also many RA's who just shouldn't work with adolescents, who I believe have genuine animosity towards them. (As something of a sidenote, while I agree that we need more alumni on staff, there have been some abolutely fantastic, wonderful staff members who never went as students. Can anyone call Gabe Lundeen or Marissa Pareles "mercenary"? I'd like to drop the sweeping generalization being made, that one needs experience as a student to comprehend what it's all about.)

The rules do chafe. Surely, I put up with less at 15 than I did at 12, but I have a long enough memory to know that it was a lot looser. The old administrative regime--a friendly bunch who never much stuck their noses into anything--have been replaced by people who just don't get it (SRA's excluded). For example, we had to fight to hold Passionfruit first session. There is an us-versus-them mentality that was never present before. Last year, I didn't think I could enjoy it anymore and didn't plan on coming back until my mind was changed by people who understood what I've come to realize this past summer:

No rules, no "fun police", no falsely egalitartian, for-profit attitude can take away the feeling one has at CTY. Whatever the administration may do to stop it, closeness between students and staff still thrives. The dizzy, acute sense of belonging pervades. I don't know if this is universal or just me, but when I'm there, my sense of aesthetics is overwhelming. The poetry in everything is so accessible and pure...Now I'm completely babbling, but I hope I'm making my point, that what REALLY COUNTS about CTY lives on and transcends anything imposed by anyone besides the students. And younger students *are* being taught what it's all about. Possibly the most heartening thing I saw all summer was 12-year-olds sobbing their eyes out during the last American Pie.

As for classes becoming more about getting ahead than the joy of learning, I can only argue that such an attitude simply doesn't exist in the humanities courses, at least in my (albeit narrow) experience. Perhaps it's that I've taken mostly philosophy and that's not applicable for credit in most high schools, but the fact that CTY keeps offering new courses that aren't really substitutes for or enrichment to regular high school classes (Existentialism and Ghandi's India were new courses this year, and Ethics, Shakespeare's Comedy and a dozen others persist) suggests that it really can still be about the pleasure of learning and not an emulation of cram schools. As for the dumbing-down--well, I wasn't there in 1983; I couldn't tell you. I just know that, even as an older student, I'm still being challenged and having my limits tested. (Kant's a real bitch to read. But we DID. Kierkegaard is impenetrable. But we had to try anyway. Maybe back in the day, the students would have been capable of far more difficult work and the instructional staff would have worked them that much harder. I just know that, though I don't see CTY as being primarily about hard work, it's still par for the course.)(Since I've already butchered this by indulging in parentheses anyway, I may as well add that even at the infamous Hamilton site, we still sometimes sneak work outside of the classrooms, fully encouraged by our instuctors. I wouldn't have finished my final project if my TA hadn't lent me his flashlight.)

I think a lot of the argument stems from older-generation students not being able to experience CTY for the first time as it is now, and for current CTYers and staff not knowing how it used to be. (This reminds me of Pie lyrics, but I'll avoid that, thank you.) Maybe CTY was once one big 3-week emotional and intellectual orgasm of which I can't even conceive and so I don't know what I'm missing, but I somehow doubt that it was ever a perfect utopia. Fond memory and time tend to gloss things over. I don't mean to suggest that the administration was always so insensitive/inept/overgrown or that having an alumni majority on the staff wasn't a great thing. I just mean to say that, while changes DO need to be made and people DO need to try to get Baltimore to hear them, the problems with CTY never have, don't, and I'd like to think never will come close to outweighing the good. This summer has been amazing and these were the best to sessions I've had of CTY so far, and at the same time the most restricted and administrated. Somehow, I'm still hungry for more.

Never let me near soapboxes, if you know what's good for you.

From: (REAL NAME WITHHELD BY REQUEST) <Spin0za1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:49:39 EST

I have chosen to have my name stricken from the record, as it were, but anyone who knows me will probably know who i am. I was at CTY Clinton at Hamilton College for four years- eight sessions in all. I became a nevermore in 1998 and sometimes I feel like it wasn't a moment too soon. I left CTY feeling that I wanted it to go on forever. That I wanted it never to end. At the same time I knew that it had to both because I was outgrowing it and because it was outgrowing me. I'd earned popular unoffical "legend" status and learned those last few days that many felt that CTY was dying with my departure. This was of course silly. There had been and would/will be many CTY legends before, during, and after my time at CTY. I knew that we both had to move on and evolve.

It was, however, not only the "Laughing Spinoza Age" that ended when I left the site. That year the site administration changed from Josh and Kim, the married couple who had met within the CTY community, were veterans of the program, and who most of us felt understood the "meaning of CTY" pretty well, to a new director who really knew nothing of the culture. Most of the RAs also left, replaced by similarly uninformed "newbies." This would not be of great concern to me if it weren't for the flood of e-mails that poured in to me with horror stories of the new administration's disregard for the students' customs and culture. Most shocking and disturbing among these were reports that the new site director had attempted to end the last dance in the middle of Amercan Pie(!!) which needless to say nearly incited a riot.

I have a problem with restriction in general. I am not about to suggest that all the rules set in place at CTY be scrapped. That would obviously never fly. My main objection is more to the attitude of much of the administration and staff of CTY that the students are beings to be restricted rather than intelligent people... in many cases far more intelligent than the staffers and admins who restrict them. Students are a liability to be contained rather than the people whom the program was initially set up and is currently maintained to benefit. Students are not even to be regarded as people at times, it seems.

When I first came to CTY I was overwhelmed by the beauty of the place. I was overwhelmed to the extent that I was to some extent blinded to the restrictiveness of the place as I think many are. A few years ago I might have had much the same reaction to Matthew's article as did Sara Madge (who by the way was/is a friend of mine... Hi Sara how've you been?) and asserted that the restrictiveness of CTY was a small price to pay for the vast emotional freedom and relief from the stigmatism and ostracism many of us experienced at home. However I can remember that during second session '95 I was talking with someone about the suicide which had occurred the previous year and a staff member heard us and told us not to talk about it. The admins had decreed the subject taboo as it would give a bad impression of the program to those who didn't know about it... regardless of the fact that my sister had been at the site when the suicide had occurred and I was attempting to dispell the rumors which were already flying about it.

Another incident which left a bad taste in my mouth for the administration's attitude toward students as a liability was during my first session, when the Academic counselor was informed by my well-intentioned and very nice and friendly RA that I seemed depressed. I remember being called into his office and having a "friendly chat" with him and my explaining to him that i was having an amazing time at CTY and that perhaps my outward expression was not quite caught up with my inward joy as i didn't much enjoy life at home. As soon as that was all cleared up and everything seemed like it would be okay he informed me that he had already called my parents about the matter.

He called my parents before even discussing the issue with me. Of course that made sense to him. The parents are what's important for a host of reasons. For one thing, yes, they are the ones with the money, and furthermore the parents are the ones responsible for the child. The child has no power or in theory reasoning ability of their own. Of course the parents should be considered before the child.

What Ed didn't know and didn't bother to find out was that my father was at the time physically and emotionally abusive toward his family and yes i was thoroughly punished over intersession weekend for my "misbehavior." Despite his genuine attempts to heal the wounds after he learned of my situation a year later i never quite trusted the "evil admins" again.

These stories are not so much of increasingly numerous and oppressive rules as of what I feel to be more the real root of the problem, which I feel is not merely institutional but societal as well... that is the tendency to view minors as not quite people yet. The idea that children are merely extentions of their parents until an arbitrarily decreed age is so ingrained in our society that it is taken thoroughly for granted and accepted even by most minors... even by those whose rights have been thoroughly stomped on as by dictatorial school administrators or abusive parents or overzealous cops... simply because there seems to be no societal precedent for any alternative way of thinking.

The issue is seemingly infinitely complicated when it comes to the issue of "smart kids," a horrendously stigmatized and dismissed minority group. Smart kids are an anomaly that our society does not know how to deal with. They look like the same beings who are traditionally viewed as mindless unpredictable non-entities with no claim to the rights that adults take for granted for themselves... but these kids are in fact, and display themselves to be, articulate, rational, and intelligent...

and therefore dangerous.

The societal impulse is to supress. To correct. Make them normal. Make them fit in the box. CONTROL THEM at all costs. This is what many of us have lived with most of our lives. At first CTY seemed like an escape from the oppression. To some extent it was and still is. But the extent to which CTY is a respite from this nightmarish reality has little or nothing to do with the administration, I'm sorry to say. Sadly it is more often in spite of the almost equally oppressive administration that CTY becomes our haven. The one place for many of us where we feel that it is okay for us to be and explore who we are and who we want to be and what makes us happy.

I understand that the intentions are good. Intentions are almost always good. I would like to think that not many people go into any venture thinking "hmmm... what can I do to make these people's lives more difficult?" I understand that the higher-ups often feel that their hands are tied. To be honest, I can't blame them entirely for the impositions that our society has placed on them concerning the handling of minors. The fact is, however, that they are not doing much to fight it either. They believe in the same principles I have described above, and believe it with the whole of their being. Rather than learning from the students, they persist in their idea that they as adults must maintain order and discipline at any and all costs.

This brings me back to the site director who tried to end the dance in the midst of our most sacred song... she could have avoided offending the student body if she had merely taken the bit of effort required to learn a bit about the traditions and the culture surrounding the dances and the camp in general rather than trying to mold the camp into what she saw as her own vision of what CTY CLN should be.

i know that things have gotta change. They've gotta change way more drastically than anyone suspects. But they've got to change for the right reasons or else more will be irrevocably lost and one day we may be worse off than when we started.

-Laughing Spinoza

'95 1 Wri 1
'95 2 psych
'96 1 wri 2
'96 2 Etymology
'97 1 Logic
'97 2 Ethics
'98 1 Am. Hist
'98 2 Newton Darwin and Einstein
Hamilton: Where the Waffles are Up the bricks are down and the Disc sails through the air in between.

From: Brian Kinney <bkinney@mail.wesleyan.edu>
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 22:04:04 EDT

First let me say that you would not believe how old reading some of these comments make me feel. That being said, I attended CTY for four years in the early 90s. Each year I attended a different location and came away with a unique experience. During these four summers, I learned to play ultimate frisbee, learned what a "Turkey Hill Run" was, and met some of the most interesting and unforgettable people on the face of the planet. I remember CTY dances where the opening chords of Istanbul meant everyone started a rip-chord, Birdhouse in My Soul meant a whole 'lotta jumping was going to go on, and to this day American Pie can bring Tears to my eyes. These experiences came, however, from the incredibly open atmosphere at CTY which also led to such things as a mandatory fun session on conspiracy theories.

However, I think that it is important to note something that occurred during my last year at CTY, at Clinton session 1 in 1994. During the first week of the session, a CTYer, who I knew in passing, committed suicide and was found in his room by his R.A. The more surprising thing, though, was the institutional response to this tragedy. Rather then treat CTYers as anything resembling mature, the powers that be decided unilaterally to make changes such as eliminating caffeine from the Dining Hall and imposing strict limitations on our activities. It is that type of reaction which has served to diminish the CTY experience and prevented the more spontaneous and intellectually stimulating environment which is possible at CTY.

Anyway- just thought I'd add my 2 cents and hope that those in charge in Baltimore realize that with the "talent" of CTYers comes a maturity, and it is important to recognize this.

'91 LAN1
'92 LMU1
'93 SAR1
'94 CLN1

Have Fun Storming the Castle,
Brian

From: Lyn Nelson <countess234@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:56:49 PST

so much to respond to, it will never get done. i won't ramble to you about my experiences as a nevermore or a ctyer because either you've felt it or you haven't. i'm lyn (duh) and i've been to CTY 5 years, 8 sessions. on the east coast. apparently my sites (with the change) have this reputation for being the strictest sites. perhaps they were. but that doesn't mean we were lined up and marched to class or that we ate in sync or were caned for being 30 seconds late to mandatory fun. granted the rules got stricter as i got older. i remember the days of sneaking from milbank to babbit in '98 and the RA's who "didn't see us." administration changes, people change, things change. sure there were poopy rules but nothing that couldn't be tolerated. as i reminded my 1st session hall, many of these rules are instituted for the first years, many of which could be picked up and hidden in a pocket by a dubious character, especially on an open campus in the middl! ! e of seedy schenectady. i had a really strict RA this year first session and i couldn't do anything around her, you know, the stuff you get away from your parents to do. curse and make out. not that it's the most becoming behavior but i'm 16, are you going to expect me to be pristene? she joked about it with me, but in the end i got my way. she made a fuss in union station when she saw me making out with my boyfriend, but she couldn't do anything about it. on the other hand another RA who saw us together too was joking and talking with me about it all night. (come on, it's social time, the lights are off, all the couples are together, what do you want?) each RA has their own thing, you have to find the ones (usually returners) who know which rules are breakable (like weeknight sleepovers) and which ones aren't (setting fire to your bed or shoving a fork in your eye).

on nevermoreness? *big sigh of not knowing where to start* there are so many pieces. i'll pick one for you. i'm not overwhelmed by panic every time i leave a reunion. if i see my friends in the city and we hang out for a day, i know they're still there. and i know that my life at home is tolerable. i've grown up and matured in a place that lets me be me and i can carry that part of myself over and mold it into the real world. CTY is really only half fantasy. at the most recent reunion a friend told me that he loved these reunions because it assured him that ctyers existed outside of cty. that's exactly what it is. assurance. a chance to see loved ones again. when it ends, life doesn't end. life at cty was always 9087983475358345 times better than life at home. it depressed me that there was something so heavenly out there that i couldn't reach again for a year. i sobbed all the way home. this year i barely broke tears. sure i had cried myself out the night ! ! before and i still had PCTYS but i had overcome. in the end it doesn't even matter. all the rules and bad times you had don't matter. everything is beautiful. it's all state of mind.

Lyn Nelson 1997, sesh2, conn coll, writing and imagination 1998, sesh1, hamilton, crafting the essay 1998, sesh2, intro to psych 1999, sesh1, lawp 1999, sesh2, amstud 2000, sesh2, *logic* (ahhhh!) 2001, sesh1, union, existentialism 2001, sesh2, ethics

From: Charlie McGeorge <CharlieMcGeorge@gmail.com>
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:25:05 EDT

I don't have much to say, but I hope that what I do have helps.

My name is Charlie McGeorge and I have been to CTY thrice (Siena 05.1- Cryptology, Lancaster 06.1- Fundamentals of Computer Science, Lancaster 07.2- Crafting the Essay). I'm due to go back this summer to Lancaster and take Logic, and hopefully again in '09.

Since this thread has been dormant for seven years, I thought I'd open the time capsule suggested by some of the earlier posts. I intend to report on what traditions are still alive, and what the state of CTY is as of 2008.

Traditions:
(Mind you, these are Lancaster traditions, where they are kept most strongly. Other sites have less.)

The Canon - The set of songs played at all five dances, many of them dating back to the '80s when CTY was formed. American Pie is the most important song, and the last song played at every dance. Second-most-important and second-to-last is Stairway to Heaven. There are about ten other songs, which are played intermittently throughout the dances. The "High Holy" canon must be played at some point at every dance, and then there's "Upper" and "Lower" canon but I'm not sure what the exact rules are on those. They're all online, and pretty easy to find. Someone mentioned Birdhouse In Your Soul- that's still there.

Passionfruit - At 6AM on the last day (I think other sites have it on every Friday or something, but at LAN it's just the last day), all the nomores and a few devoted younger CTYers gather around a bunch of drinks on Hartman Green. I have not yet been able to make the actual 6AM start time, instead groggily slipping out at about 6:30, so I'm not sure how it starts, but I've heard there's Emperors and Empresses who make the first toasts and preside over things. RAs are present for supervision, but they sit way off to one side where they can't hear anything. All the nomores and nevermores make toasts, and then onemores if there's time (there usually isn't). Many items and student positions are passed down (I'll describe in detail later), and the really hardcore CTYers usually stay all through breakfast and listen to They Might Be Giants songs until the RAs make us go to class, at which time we play The End of the Tour and cry our hearts out.

Positions - I'm pretty sure this is relatively new. The students (specifically, the Alcove, which is the most recent traditionalist student group) have a few designations that are assigned to nomores and passed down formally during the last week of CTY, second session. First session has their own traditions.

The Holder of the Duck is the most important; this person carries a Duck that was originally bought way-back-when for a Monty Python skit, and is generally the most respected person at CTY. The Passing of the Duck occurs on the last Wednesday, in Schnader 1st Lounge, following the Monk Walk of cafeteria trays.

Jesus and Satan (originally just Jesus) are responsible mainly just to spread tradition and indoctrinate squirrels (first-years). These positions are passed down at the Last Supper on Thursday evening. (Calendar Thursday; CTYers switch the last two days to CTY Friday and CTY Thursday for various traditional reasons) It's a very big deal.

The rest of the positions, as far as I know, are passed down at Passionfruit after the passer has toasted. Sometimes people just pass items, and not titles.

Thursday - In reverence to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, people (alas, not very many) wear bathrobes or carry towels on each Thursday. It's kind of half-assed nowadays, but still admirable.

Afterdance - There's a ritual that occurs after every dance called the Afterdance, where (basically the same group of people who will go to Passionfruit) run to a specific part of the quad in front of Thomas Hall and recite a series of chants ranging from the Hokey Pokey to C is for Cookie to a dissertation on circles. They then proceed to run back to their dorms singing "CTY, you have a nice butt, CTY we love you, take off your clothes, take off your clothes, CTY we love you!".

I know I'm missing loads of important information, but most (well, probably all) of it can be found at realcty.org.

So now for my opinions. Well, I have taken it upon myself to found and run a CTY alumni website called postctydepression.com. I agree with Matthew Belmonte's ideas about why CTY doesn't have formal reunions, and hopefully PCTYD helps in that respect. I am all for the preservation of tradition, but not for tradition's sake. Tradition is part of the glue that holds CTY together. It keeps CTY quirky, which inspires more creative (and not-as-repetitive) forms of quirkiness in CTYers themselves. In effect, it is the old generations teaching the current one how to let go of the outsideworldly ideas of normality and do whatever the hell you want to do for the sake of being able to do it. Do CTYers still fight with the administration? All the time. Do we win? Sometimes. Most of the PDA rules are still in effect or worse, but they're up to RA interpretation, as is just about everything.

On the elitism: I have to agree a little bit with Belmonte when it comes to the dilution of CTY. There are people there that you meet and eventually ask yourself "How did this person ever qualify for a talented program?" But it's not that bad. If CTY was even more elite, I'd probably still qualify, but I don't think it'd be all that different. CTY is about the special community formed by its students. Yes, only bright and misunderstood students can form that kind of community, but they don't need to be supergeniuses. The fact that you show up to nerd camp is usually an indication that you're nerdy enough to contribute to CTY in a positive way. Everyone there is smart enough that nobody cares how smart anyone else is. That's the highest level of elitism we need.

From: Lizzy (ADDRESS WITHHELD BY REQUEST)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:50:33 PDT

Hello. I am Lizzy Hardwick, and I have only been to CTY once, at a nontraditionalist site. However, I am active in the forum Charlie mentioned, and consider myself not as an inexperienced twomore, but as a true CTYer. In posting, I hope to just give you another current datapoint, from a different site.

Moving on to the more factual aspects of the summer program. The class I took, Logic, was well-taught. It featured a TA who disagreed with the teacher on every point, and was built as though it were one big debate, rather than a lecture. My brain worked in ways it had never worked before, and looking back on my in-class notes makes me laugh. As a current student, I wouldn't know what RAs used to be, but mine was not an alumna, and didn't understand CTY. Although this was dissapointing, it was not the RAs and TAs that made CTY CTY for me, but the students.

We had enforced class breaks, and homework was not allowed outside of class. Although I found this annoying at the time, I realize that one negative quality of talent is obsession. I believe that Mandatory Fun and required breaks were simply a demonstration to students of how to balance their lives. I noticed that after the breaks, no one would want to go inside and work again. It was just part of our stubborn nature, and we were deprived of neither socialization nor work.

Regarding elitism and program growth: I have to say I agree with Charlie on this. CTY has not become a normal place just because more people apply. I believe that SAT and ACT scores, though a decent idea of intelligence, should not be such an emphasis that they would prevent students who would fit well in CTY from entering. Also, the number of kids at each site hasn't messed up the atmosphere as much as you might think it would. Because CTYers hold little adversity towards one another, there are not exclusive groups. There are, however, little pockets of friends. As I put it to one person from my site that I only met on Charlie's website, "Sometimes, I feel like CTY is a loss, because I know that there are so many amazing people there that I won't have the time to meet." CTY has not gone from a gourmet meal to a high school cafeteria, it has gone from a gourmet meal to a gourmet buffet.

About the institution: Though I understand that CTY may have changed its course, I believe that it is fulfilling its goals. Talented students who go there are amazed by the acceptance they find there.

On the other hand, it was wrong of CTY the institution to jerk around traditions.

At LAN, the grass orgy ban, glowstringing ban, and hand-holding ban were over-the-top. On the other hand, LMU seems to enjoy a level-headed institution. When a transexual TA reacted negatively to drag day, and told her class not to do it, CTY the institution sent out a message to CTYers at their next hall meeting. CTY said that though it did not officially support drag day, it believed that students should be able to wear what they want. The announcement also pointed out how we should use the day of having other camps stare at us as a learning experience, as to better understand people in positions like that of the TA.

At LMU, traditions are on the decline. This is not because of interference by CTY the institute, but because the students seem to have a communication problem. I have started an organization currently known as the LMU Traditions Committee. The goal of this committee is to restore canon, and to generally support the true spirit of CTY. After CTY, if I remember, I will send a message about the reaction of CTY.

This comment looks incredibly long-winded. I'm sorry for that, I have the bad habit of logorrhea.

Note: Please do not show my e-mail, as I am a minor with paranoid parents. Those who want to contact me can do so through PM on www.postctydepression.com

From: Amanda (ADDRESS WITHHELD BY REQUEST)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:15:26 +0800

I personally agree strongly that even though this essay was written years ago, the situation remains the same. CTY the camp and CTY the institution is separable.
My "home site", the site I first started out at age 13 is the Johns Hopkins site in MD. It's depressing and heart-breaking to see the traditions being broken down by the administration staff within the space of a mere 6 weeks.

Over the past summer, only a meagre Canon was played. Even though returners demand for songs like "Dragostea Din Tei", "Nightswimming" and "Istanbul" to be played, due to the amount of new staff (which is about 98%), the only thing we're sure of are the three High Holy Canon songs. All of this was different a year ago. I was the squirrel, fresh out of Baby CTY, and I thought that CTY that year was the best thing in the entire universe, the best thing I could call mine.

Over the past summer, sure, we played 3 rounds of BLAMMO, but they were chaotic. The amount of squirrels was staggering. No one took the game seriously. No one took the time to report kills. The staff were allowed to play, but I found that quite unfair as for half of the day during the week, you barely see your RA as you are in class. The only time you could possibly catch an RA without their spoon was the 40 minutes of Social Time or during meals.

Over the past summer, due to the previously mentioned lack of returning staff, many traditions fail to live on, also because of the lack of support. Drag Day is neither recognized nor denied. This is a waste of an opportunity to educate teenagers about tolerance and awareness on the gay/lesbian/questioning/transgender community. The Afterdance is poorly advertised and so as a result, only a small group of returners bother to show up. The lack of returning staff also means that there is a larger chance for misunderstanding to breed. For example, the Academic Counsellor hired this year was hated vehemently because she failed to show the interest to learn about student-run traditions and dismissed them. She also made the mistakes of assuming she knew more about the camp and blatantly trying to assert her authority. If CTY the institution could at least consider hiring more alumni as staff, then our tight-knit community could be preserved.

Over the past summer, we couldn't even crown an Emperor of Passionfruit or God of BLAMMO due to the scarcity of students willing to return to JHU. How do you expect the sense of belonging, the sense of camaraderie to be preserved for years to come, if there isn't anyone to keep these traditions running? Sure, you may argue that new traditions will crop up but in the end, without these kids who want to be part of the camp, not just a member of the institution, all you have is a society of kids who come there to gain credit just for school purposes. They won't come anymore to ambush others with plastic spoons. They won't dance to numbers from The Rocky Horror Show. They won't have grass orgies. And when they leave, will they listen to Stairway to Heaven the way we do? Will they contemplate the meaning behind American Pie the way we do? I doubt that they will.

If the administration do not admit that without these traditions, that CTY will become just another money-driven organization, then they have lost their biggest selling strategy. CTY is different. You cannot deny that. It's different because the student community is so diverse, yet we are united by the same need for a true home, the need to find yourself. If you take this away, then CTY is no longer different. They are just another camp for kids who are brighter than average. But it's no longer the place that true CTY-ers are proud of.

The only way to remedy this is to encourage the return of alumni. I see no other option. If we want CTY to stay the same, maybe even become better, we have to get the alumni to come back.

If you want to contact me, you can message me at pctyd.com. I'm a member and my user-name is longlive10.2.

From: Sarah Badenhorst <badenhorst5@icloud.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:54:24 BST

*Clears throat* Hello? Anyone out there? I've been coming back to the page a number of times over the past three years and now I think it might be my time to finally leave a comment.

A note about my CTY experience: It's no secret that I have a strong affinity for CTY. I've been a CTYer since 2014, doing 4 years onsite and having to cross the Atlantic Ocean each time. At CTY I've met all kinds of weird and wonderful people from the world over who, like me, weren't built for the world... so we made our own here. This whole camp has rocked my world, blown my mind and broken my heart in a way that has taught me how to just exist...exist in a world where I am so free to act so nerdy and intellectually obscure yet so personal and so genuine. It's part of the magic and I won't be so crude as to define what we know to be fluid.

The last person to comment on this page was someone called Amanda (Her username for the pctyd site is the same one she used on the RealCTY wiki) and two years after she posted that comment she took the position of Empress at JHU and started writing the "Book of Love" which is (at present) the 100+ page script that houses all the tradition records and personal entries of what has been going on at the JHU site. I am reasonably far down her line of succession. I became Empress in `22 (We survived covid!) and became the first non-nevermore to hold the title before being Rave Queen (like Jack flash or King James for the Lancastrians) this year. I've spoken to a number of position holders (and not just my predecessors) about the state of admin, I've been around to see CTY's climate change for a long time and spent two consecutive years having to represent the student body in front of admin, so I know a thing or two about admin and what I've concluded is that this is a cycle.

The funny thing about my site (JHU) is that from a cultural perspective, is "tanking." JHU was a fairly recent site that always had a high squirrel count that parents wanted to send their kids to because it had the most expansive and difficult roster of STEM classes. It's also on an open (and prestigious) campus in Baltimore so admin strictness is unlike anything anywhere else. I know a number of flying squirrels who came for hard classes and the kind of people who wanted to take hard classes, but could never return to JHU because of the culture (or rather, lack of it)... but things changed recently.

In 2022, we had an alumnus as SRA and a sizable handful of RAs who weren't stepping on CTY soil for the first time. As for the DRL and Site-director, I only saw them because I lived near them. It may be different at other sites, but it's basic knowledge that at JHU anyone above the SRA will scarcely be seen. Not even the DRL has much to do with the students and it's all done by the RAs... who I was shocked to find were willing to help the spread of traditions and even get in on the lore. Though the rules were strict, the RAs sympathised with us and as long as there was no foul (which there wasn't), they were willing to turn a blind eye to activities like sleepovers and some even arranged to take us on weekend trip to places out of bounds but near site, which they COULD apply to do. I'm in contact with five of the RAs from last year because forevermore or neverwas, so many of them found kids like us who were COMPLETELY insane but so intuitive and part of this wonderland that they may not have understood, but grew to love. I also know that only one of these five returned to RA, but I know very few who would dare RA to begin with let alone do it all again.

I heard forevermore RAs on community platforms like Server42 discussing the fact that "CTY the administration" started to wake up to the fact that they ARE mutually dependent on "CTY the community," as we've all been trying to make clear to them. With so many other gifted programs and pre-college programs out there, being the more communal place and who they were in "the good old days" is the best business plan. Even if it's in the name of business, the administration is acknowledging its students and the place this camp used to be.

So! This is all a cycle? Yes, yes it is and although I've been on the good side of it as of late, those who lived this essay and many of the comments know the bad side. I've rambled enough about my experience and what's going on right now, so here's the verdict...

#1. CTY's image. I know for a fact that there are some wonderful people really high up there who know about, have written about and have spoken about people like us. They know what they're talking about, but all such people are academics who have no/little involvement with CTY's image and camp life. And the image is pretty temperamental; The whole anti-elitism is very real, as is the fact that getting rid of the CTY spark would betray actual ctyers. This means the image is neutral in reality, but of course can be perceived very differently. There's the perception of CTY being just another camp where garden-variety tops of classes go to write about academic challenges on their resumes. There's the perception of CTY as a separate world where gifted kids can find their tribe and grow intellectually and personally into the people they never knew they were. Both exist in various extremities simultaneously in the minds of so many.

#2 CTY's teachers. I love them. All CTY classes somehow find a way to push me further than I've ever been in ways I couldn't have ever imagined. CTY hasn't just given me access to material that I otherwise wouldn't have heard of... no, it's also taken apart my methodology, work ethic and central haeceity, but given me the pieces to rebuild it all how I want... and it certainly hasn't just been me. I've never had a mediocre one on-site and although (naturally) my online teachers didn't do nearly as much for me, they were still better than 95% of my school teachers (and I go to a very academic high school that consistently ranks top 20 in my country as a non-private). I'm still in contact with three of these teachers and cannot thank them more for being the kind of adults we all wish we saw more of growing up. I know some teachers are still here from the 80s or 90s but there are new teachers running very new classes (such as Topology, which is a wonderful math class that started in 2019) who are as radical and inspiring in every way. My topology teacher got to know us for all our little quirks and was so supportive of who we were. That was his not-so-secret weapon. He was such a good math teacher because he knew how we thought, who we were on such a fundamental level and indulged. He set a number of us (including myself) custom final projects that were an absolute trip to get through. I know there are many incredible teachers who have been forced to leave over the years, but there's youngblood. Some classes have definitely seen other days and some aren't being taught at all, but on the whole the quality of teachers doesn't dip far.

#3 Res life. Oh boy. I think you get the drill. Although there will always be good RAs and bad RAs every year, the way they act as a collective depends on the SRAs and other superiors. The overall instruction becomes more lenient when disregarding and trying to control students is taken to an extreme. Maybe too many people get fired or quit early, maybe students and parents complain, maybe this even leads (ironically) to safeguarding issues and real issues being insufficiently dealt with, but it happens. Sooner or later after this stage, admin takes us for granted and acts in self interest. They crack down on regulations, try to limit what we can do and are either reluctant to support us or want to get involved in everything we do to shut down anything unconventional. Position holders will customarily discuss traditions with the RA and maybe SRA, but I know that during worse years position holders have been almost interrogated by SRAs and higher ups. One of the most passionate position holders I knew was targeted by the DRL and pulled from classes to be questioned alone by him. It wasn't pretty and I'm lucky to have seen nothing like that when I came to be a position holder.

#4 The students. There are more of us, many of us are testing in our mid-teen instead of pre-teens and are doing so by taking the PSAT at a normal age instead of the SAT early or SCAT for no other reason. But are we getting dumber? It's hard to tell. There have been a couple of times when I've looked around CTY and asked myself if I could tell how people tested in and how much they qualified for, and have usually concluded that I don't know. There are always a handful of ctyers who resemble more typical high schoolers and there have been ctyers I've had my disagreements with, but these are far and few apart. I've no idea how the selection process always chooses such devoted and diverse people, but I've never had an ordinary classmate or teacher. These people are individuals, that is they DO things to the world. These people can turn fast paced death (engineering) into fast paced friendship, three weeks into forever and a single class into so much more. I've spoken to and befriended many such people who say they wish they'd known about the side of them that came out for the first time at CTY so much sooner. They may not resemble the young, bright-eyed squirrel I remember being, but there's no doubt that they're ctyers all the same.

#5 The magic: the intangible miracle that allows complete strangers to become true friends in a matter of weeks, that force that allows us to understand and be understood for the first time in our lives, the force that lingers as we scramble back to our corners of the world because no matter what, we remember... but can we pass on? Once we're gone will there be anyone left to say "Last year was different?" Always. As much as I love the solidarity of this camp, a part of me always asks whether anyone else will reads over old RealCTY logs, learn "It's the end of the world as we know it" by heart, look out from up in the Gillman Clock tower, All pile down on in a grass orgy, write out "Jon Good loves you" a hundred times over and know what it means to do all that because this camp is their life. But we've always asked that and we always will ask that. Just looking over these comments, if you had removed the dates and old names, I'd assume they were from my generation of CTYers. That's the only catch of the magic... when you're going through the worst, how can you sit around and say "The magic will fix it. It always does?" You can't because you can't risk being the one the magic can't save.

So what's the verdict? You decide, but in case you're curious here's my two cents... Firstly, as long as ctyers are still ctyers I will be proud to call myself one. Admin can go against us from time to time, but so does everyone else every day of the week. The classes and the people you find by taking them are more than worth dealing with however strict CTY may be. Getting kind of deep here, but CTY is the only community I've been allowed to be a part of, the only place where I've unapologetically been myself (even if I've had to take a couple of rendezvous with no adults in the know) and the only reason that I'm still here and still going strong. I know there are other pre-college programs, but word on the street (or in the community discord: server 42, rather) is that such programs don't do better in terms of strictness and are basically harder school rather than gifted programs. So lose lose.

I REALLY can't see myself having kids at any point in the future, but if I had any I'd definitely send them to CTY and urge my friends to look into the program for their own kids. We all know what it means to grow up as intellectuals. I don't want anyone to face that aching kind of growing alone.

I know that even at the age of 17, many of my friends and I have discussed working for CTY and many of us have considered TA-ing and I'm one of the few who wants to RA. It's a hard job and who wants to be under admin? If I get to live in the US, I will be trying to RA because I want to be the kind of RA that I'm still in touch with. I know there will be other jobs with better pay and offering more experience, but I want to go through the hardships of being an RA if it means that the kids get to have someone outside of the classroom who will appreciate them. I'm so lucky to have had that at CTY because I certainly don't have it back home. I've heard that it's a very "JHU" thing to either fall to the pressure of admin's strictness or FIGHT for it all. I'm definitely the latter and I'd urge anyone else who feels that they could thrive under the pressure to apply to RA too. "We're remembering... that's how we win out in the long run."

Would I give money to CTY? I, and everyone else I know have unanimously said it's unlikely. If I have money to give, I'll try to give money directly to friends with kids taking the program (can't be too hard to find given that I seem to be incompatible with anyone who isn't certified as gifted). As much as I respect the researchers high up in CTY and the CTY scholarship program, I can't guarantee my money will fall into those two pools.

That's all I have. If you're seeing this at any point in the future, feel free to hit me up by email or on the Server 42 CTY discord (links on the realCTY wiki). As long as I'm kicking around somewhere, I'll be sure to get back to you whether I'm seventeen or seventy.
Sincerely yours and forevermore,
Switch (A little nickname the CTYers in my generation may know me by)

There we were all in one place...

From: Amelia Orwant <amelia@orwant.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 18:54:48 EDT

My name is Amelia; I was a CTY student from 2014 to 2019 and had a role in student monarchy at the Baltimore site. It's now been five years since I aged out, but I'm often contacted by current monarchs at my home site to offer some advice or dig up an old password (which I am always happy to do).

After one such recent discussion with a current student spurred me to reflect on the trajectory of CTY, I gave this essay a proper read and was struck by how precisely it hit the nail on the head. I've been known to rant about the effects of the CTY administrative focus on marketability and liability. CTY these days is undoubtedly a service advertised to parents who want something to put on their kids first resume. The administrative decisions are often steeped in fear of liability. They would rather ensure no iota of harm or risk could penetrate the camp than allow more community or joy inside it.

But somehow, several generations have the same story. The original essay descries the dilution of the experience between 1982 and 1983. A commenter writes "The magic was gone for me by the end of 1994." Another commenter from 2011 describes experiencing the same process. How is it that we all have the same story? Surely, if this appraisal is accurate then CTY should have already faded into a piece of pre-college resume fluff leaving nobody to complain? (Perhaps this is a tad dramatic, but it is a little shocking that every generation somehow seems to observe a dire fall from nerd heaven. How many times can we fall before we hit the ground?)

Newer comments seem to take this optimistically, describing a cycle of administrative infringements and student protest that ebbs and flows but ultimately keeps most of the important stuff. The link to this essay on RealCTY introduces it as making "dire predictions# many of which have thankfully not come true." There's a confidence among recent CTYers that we have overcome this, contrasting with the decades of stories of decline.

Now, I do think there is some truth to this. The fact that tradition remains is indicative of the immense resilience of the community. And there are still stories of nerdy students who don't fit in elsewhere finding their people through CTY. That much is true and probably the most important fact about how CTY is doing.

However, I admit I am far more cynical in my interpretation. I believe every single fall from nerd heaven described in the comments throughout the years. How is it that every generation seems to enter CTY when it's still in the "good days"? I believe it is because this change is not an isolated phenomenon. It is not just CTY that has steadily narrowed its focus on marketability and liability throughout the years. It is not just CTY that has adopted increasingly strict and patronizing standards towards anyone under the age of eighteen. Our expectations are set by what we consider normal. And these days, especially in a post-covid world, teens are used to the weight of restriction. In my time at CTY I was too annoyed by regulations requiring students to be accompanied by staff at all times, including the short walk from class to a bathroom (lest a gifted teen misunderstand stairs and sue) to even get around to being annoyed that we weren't allowed to visit each other's dorms. Every year, kids become more accustomed to a world where there's always an adult specifying what they should be doing and how. Especially with the regulations required by covid, norms have changed away from giving minors autonomy. As I see it, CTY has changed right along with the trends.

In a way, this does mean CTY still remains a good offering relative to other possibilities. I'm sure those complaining about restrictions in '94 would be utterly disgusted by the rules today. But that is in part because they had so many more freedoms in their regular lives or at other camps.

Another commenter on this page talked about the success in convincing the administration that the CTY community and all its quirks should be viewed as feature rather than bug. Students have carried on CTY tradition by pitching it within the marketing framework favored by the administration. I do think this is probably a good thing. It kills two birds with one stone: CTYers carry on their traditions, and there's a hope of self-selection favoring the community. But I also see some dangerous precedent being set. CTY administration has decided that if it is to embrace tradition, it will 'help' run it. In fact, it will control it. What began as the decision to work together with students rather than against them has become a precedent that the administration uses to stake claim in deciding what traditions ought to be run and how. BLAMMO used to be an entirely student-run game. Administration came along, first as a helping hand aiding with the logistical burden, and then, once a parent or two said they didn't like the game, administration banned it. Drag Day began as a protest and has always been entirely run by students (administration never seemed to want to touch that one if they could help it). There are no rules against it, yet multiple times there have been attempted 'bans.' With the aid of some distance and perspective, this is ridiculous. How can they ban students from choosing to do something that abides by all the many many rules they have in place? But through years of 'helping' run traditions and 'embracing' the quirky community, the CTY administration has taken on an implicit authority over what that community is. What was once a question of which kinds of students enter the community has now expanded to include the much more looming question of what kind of community CTY administration will decide to impose on its students.

CTYer memory is short. As students age out and are replaced by new ones, CTY administration can set the tone. I don't think this was an entirely intentional choice. As the essay points out, "administration" is a vague and convoluted front, and no individual has intended to make this conniving move. I do believe the fact that CTY took on quirky traditions as a marketable feature was done in good faith to foster a positive community. And I think there are motivations behind each step to restrict them. But the fact of the matter is that students have been in some ways lured into the belief that the community and traditions are a collaboration between CTYers and administrators, with administrators wielding veto power. CTYers accepted in good faith an attempt at collaboration with and support from the administration only for that to be turned around and used to control them.

But as I said, this isn't a problem unique to CTY, and I'm not sure that CTY can fight against the powerful tide. In fact despite my cynicism, I do think CTYers have managed to fight it impressively thus far.

It's harder to speak on the academic trends and the popularity of CTY as a resume builder rather than as a fun option since those have longer timescales. Those do also exist in the context of a world where colleges are harder to get into and academic resume fluff is in increasingly high demand. But I find myself slightly less worried about this point, at least for now.

I found out about CTY because my dad attended it in the early days of the Carlisle site. I took a number theory class there by an excellent instructor ("Pomm") who was a TA for my dad's CTY class back in his day. I did learn a lot at CTY. And more importantly, I had peers who also wanted to learn. Many who didn't attend CTY would make comments about how I was crazy for wanting to do math during my summers, but I didn't encounter many CTYers who weren't excited to learn. Compared to the environment I was used to, CTY was still a rare place where people actually shared some passion to learn beyond fulfilling requirements placed on us.

I never had the perspective as an instructor, and it's difficult to observe a change in rigor as a student since I didn't take the same class twice. What I will say is that it was a hell of a lot better than my public school (which was considered quite good as public schools go). CTY showed me what I was missing, and for the first time ever I was able to find friends who also had a passion for learning. I quit my public school after 7th grade as I was mind-numbingly bored and skipping grades was prohibited. My school had meager options at best for advanced students, and was promising to reduce them in the name of "fairness." I supplemented my impromptu year of homeschooling with CTY online courses, which had more to offer than what I could get through public school. Luckily, I found a high school that was a perfect fit for me: it was incredibly rigorous, full of nerdy joy and people happy to debate with me about philosophy, and it treated students like real people with working brains capable of responsibility if you give them a minute. It is because of that high school that I cannot say CTY was more rigorous than my school experience. CTY did not push as hard as those high school classes, but I do consider that a high bar. Ultimately, CTY did fill a niche that even a supposedly good public school abysmally failed at. Whether that has more to do with public schools declining in offerings for gifted students or CTY remaining rigorous I can't say.

I've deeply enjoyed reading this essay and the thought-provoking comments included on this page. I have the advantage of looking back on decades of CTY that have gone on after that essay. With this perspective, I see these trends as less about CTY than about educational institutions, especially those catering to minors. I realize this sounds pessimistic, and I have very little to offer to combat that. My one attempt is that I think CTY might be declining at a slower rate than the average, at least when it comes to the aspects of CTY I consider to be most important. As I mentioned, my public school district moved to ban skipping grades and remove honors classes from the high school in the name of "fairness." I'm currently in my final year of college at a university known for loving learning and fostering quirky nerdy debate, and even here I often feel surrounded by students hoping to capitalize on the school's reputation for rigor without any of the passion for it. The school is big, and I can still find my people, but it's harder here than it was at CTY. There are a lot of moves towards increasing rules and regulations on teens, more fear of liability, more focus on marketing. CTY is not immune, and hasn't been for a long time. But perhaps there's some hope in the fact that it's held out on fronts where countless others have succumbed to a true eradication. For this, I credit the students, who remain introspective enough to see some of these trends and rebellious enough to fight them.

-Amelia